Note: This recording will require an opt-in after 3/17/23

How to Earn $58,559 in Estimating Fees and Net 10% Margins

This is an encore to the 2023 International Builder Show (IBS) standing-room-only presentation of, “Bidding Custom Homes & Remodeling Jobs: Turning Estimates into a Revenue Stream.”

The program is a case study of how Ironwood Custom Builders earned $58,559 in pre-construction estimating fees with a 60% markup on remodeling and 30% on custom homes, netting 10% for both.

Rick Storlie from Builder Lead Converter is joined by Kelly Anderson, owner of Ironwood Custom Builders, and Russ Stephens from the Association of Professional Builders.

At IBS, over 170 builders requested a copy of the slides that include…

• Sample content and formatting to Attract higher-quality online leads
• Where, when, and how to Capture more website leads
• The Follow-up process to Convert online leads into appointments
• Sales scripts for selling estimating fees
• Formulas for charging estimating fees

Listen to or watch the recording below. The link to download the slides is below the video.

Download the slides from the program here.

SORCI Report – https://associationofprofessionalbuilders.com/sorci

“Pricing for Profit” Free webinar is here https://hubs.ly/Q01C23Hn0

Builder Lead Converter ATTRACTS, CAPTURES & CONVERTS high-quality leads for builders so they can pick & choose their clients & jobs. Find out how at https://www.builderleadconverter.com

Transcript:

Rick:  We’re gonna go ahead and get started, on the webinar. My name is Rick Storlie. I will be your host here today. So I wanna go ahead and officially welcome you to Bidding Custom Homes and Remodeling Jobs, turning Estimates into a revenue stream. We have two co-hosts with me today. The first is Kelly Anderson from Ironwood Custom Builders. Kelly, you wanna go ahead and introduce yourself and tell us a little bit more about Ironwood Custom Builders? 

Kelly: Sure. Thanks, Rick. We are a custom hall building and remodeling firm. As Rick mentioned, we’re located in Salt Lake City. We typically do summer between 20 and 30 projects a year, and those are a mix of both new construction and typically pretty high-end models.

Rick:  Thank you, Kelly. We also have Russ Stevens with the Association of Professional Builders Russ, same questions for you, a little bit about yourself and the A P V. 

Russ: Yeah. Good afternoon everyone. Thank you for joining us today. My name is Russ Stevens from the Association of Professional Builders and we are a community of some of the most professional builders in the residential construction industry across the US, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand.

And one of the primary services we offer our members is business coaching amongst other things such as networking with like-minded builders and a preferred partner network, which enables them to access the resources that they need to scale up their building company resources like the services that Rick provides himself.

Rick:  Yeah. Well, thank, thank you, Russ. Always a pleasure to have you guys on with me. Just one other note. We attempted to get a picture of Kelly, but then after we talked to his agent, the licensing fees were a little bit too high, so we had to go with the logo. So either that Kelly, I don’t know, you must have a big gig coming up or something like that where you couldn’t get your photo. But, so I guess it’s probably good to start with, a story.

I was talking to a prospective builder client the other day and he told me about a lead that contacted them, and then he asked him the question we’ve all heard, can you give me a bid? And so this was the information that they provided the prospective client. They said, well, you know, we had purchased the land. We hadn’t closed on it. It was permitted ready.

They worked with the local architect to design the plan for it. They had their loan approved as the local lender. It was ready to, who was ready to provide construction and perfect financing. The bonus was, the builder was familiar with the lender as well. There were no contingencies. They did not have to sell their home to close on the construction loan.

They had a realistic timeline and can work with the builder’s schedule. So the builder thought to himself, I think I can handle this one. So what happened next was he asked the lead if they could, could clarify some questions and review the plan. He created a spec sheet for the project.

He met the lead at their land. He went ahead and estimated the project, and then he met with them to go over the numbers. When he was presenting the price, the lead asked some questions. The builder talked more about their process, and the next steps and the lead said, Hey, they would take some time to digest what was presented and to get back to the builder. All in all, it was a good meeting.

So a week later, the builder hadn’t heard anything, so he reached out, to the lead, and this was their response. Thank you so much for taking the time to bid on our new home. We decided to go with a different builder, but we’re impressed by your work and professionalism.

We’ll be sure to refer you to anyone we know that is considering building a home. Now, if you have had anything like this happen to you, please type one in the chat box. Yeah, Kelly just raised his hand. I’m raising my hand, I’m sure. Russ has had something like this happen as well. And if you have not seen this happen to you, it means you probably haven’t been in business long enough.

So the question is, why or what did he do wrong? What did he do wrong? So, the answer, the short answer is nothing. He did nothing wrong. He did his due diligence, he got the background, and they were ready and willing to enable leads. So why did they go with another builder? That’s the reality, the question of the hour. And the answer is, is that he was the last builder considered in the first elimination.

In other words, this lead had already been working with another builder and had already gotten a price from the other builder, and they were simply using this builder to go ahead and logically justify moving forward. The age-old buying cycle. People are attracted emotionally, and they buy, they justify the sale, the sale logically. And so this was just a way of justifying the price they’d already received.

So it’s time to stop chasing, ready, willing and able leads. And to start developing high-quality leads that convert into a contract in, into contracts. The only way that you are going to be able to start charging for your estimates is to start developing leads like you develop employees, great employees.

You don’t just go out and find, you develop them over time and when you have enough high-quality leads, you can start turning estimates into a revenue stream and close better projects at higher margins. What this program isn’t, it’s fair to, it’s fair to say that you should understand that this program is not about taking a deposit for design. We already assume that you are doing that.

And if you’re not doing that, you should be talking to Russ or Kelly after this program because that is insanity to provide free design services. Now the other thing, the program’s not, it’s not about collecting deposits or payments for preliminary work and then applying that to the cost of the project, nor is it based on theories. This is an actual case study that we would be walking through.

Kelly’s been great to provide the information, and this is not for estimators. Not that you won’t get some ideas for streamlining your estimating here, but it is not for estimators. It’s gonna be for owners or people that are on the front lines, selling design and new homes, new and memo new homes, and remodeling projects. So what this program is again, is number one in developing a backlog of high-quality leads, willing to pay you to estimate their new homeowner remodeling project.

And this is regardless if they choose you as their builder. Different options for how to calculate and sell estimating, and then the step-by-step process of asking for a fee to provide an estimate, including scripts. And then finally, some ideas to streamline estimating. So the case study is based on Ironwood Custom Builders, Kelly, who you just met. Here are the numbers you need to know. $58,559 for a pre-contract fee last year.

Those do not include design fees. It’s an average of 4,500 in estimate Kelly’s marking up, remodeling 60%. Custom homes 30% and netting 10%. So Kelly’s course is with us here today and we’ll be offering his insight throughout the program. Alright, so we will start with start how to set the stage with new leads on why they want to pay you for estimates.

And so the goal here is to build a backlog of leads who are early in the process, where you have the time to create trust and value for your services. That’s one thing, key thing that you want to keep in mind, creating trust and value. We’ll talk more about that early means while they’re still researching, and then the trust will be established before the first conversation with you.

The key point here to keep in mind is you have to have more high-quality leads than production slots. So this process is all based on production slot selling. And, Russ, I wanted to ask you as association professional builders, if you guys are big proponents of production slot selling. Can you give us a quick definition of what exactly that is? 

Russ: Yeah, sure, Rick. So, A fundamental rule in business is the rule of supply and demand. And if you can’t get the margins that you need or desire, it’s probably because your demand is not exceeding your supply. So to achieve this in the construction industry, we typically aim to only service about 50% of our demand, which can seem a bit of a strange concept for a lot of business owners.

But it is how we increase our margins because when we have twice as many people wanting us to build for them, then we can build for them, and we become a scarce resource. And as human beings, we are wired to desire and chase and value scarce resources. So the way this works with construction slots is we have to plan our capacity in advance. So if we can do 12 homes a year or 12 projects a year, we might have a construction slot, one a month.

These are our start dates. So that’s our supply, that’s our capacity. Now, what we have to do is generate more demand than we can actually fill. So we’d be looking to get 24 people that wanna build with us, and we do that through our marketing and sales. But what construction slots does is gives us two key components that we desperately need in the sales process. And that is genuine scarcity and urgency.

Because after spending six months, nine months, 12 bumps in the design process with a consumer and getting everything just right, I’m finally, you know, getting that design now. So it hits their desired budget, which we know is gonna go up as soon as they sign the contract. Buyer’s remorse can kick in. Yeah, we can get that little delay. You know, it’s again, it’s just the lizard brain kicking in. It’s there, to protect us.

And when we have a genuine scar and urgency, ie. We have a construction slot for the 1st of July, and the next one available after that is the 1st of October. We can go to the consumer and say, Hey, you know, if we get the deposit, we get the con the, contract signed today, and the deposit paid, we can allocate this construction slot to you. If not, the next one available is the 1st of October, and already have two other people that are looking for that.

So from that, hopefully, you can see how this is such a powerful strategy, but it is, there’s nothing fake about it. This is all genuine. You never increase your construction slots just because your demand increases. You hold your nerve and then you plan for the following year. 

Rick: Absolutely. Scarcity, urgency through scarcity. I think that’s, that’s the key. So production drives sales. That is what I always like to say. So the goal here, of what we’re doing is to say no when it’s the wrong fit. So it’s the wrong price or it’s the wrong project, the wrong personality. In other words, you’re getting red flags from that, from that lead, or it’s the wrong place. It’s the location that’s outside of your service, service area.

So this entire process is really based on understanding the three questions all leads have. So the first question they have is whether they can’t visualize what the new space will look like. So they ask, what will my new home or remodeled space look like? We call that their product. Question number two is whether they need to find a place to build their home or the place.

And then the third all-important question, doesn’t matter what it is, a new homeowner remodeling project, how much, right? How much is it gonna cost? What’s the price? So you will use these three questions to attract leads using specific types of content. Then you will capture leads using lead magnets.

And then finally, you will convert leads using segmentation and booking, and nurturing campaigns. And just a quick definition of segmentation. It means the leads will be categorized by interest and you will use that information to adjust the messaging in your follow-up. Really, really important. The more specific you can make your messaging as you follow up, the higher the conversions. 

Rick: So let’s start with attracting leads, using your content. So there are three types of content you’ll use to attract your target market. The first type is called expert content. So this includes articles written by professional organizations and your local media press releases.

It includes case studies of your clients. It includes video testimonials like the one you see on the screen. It includes expert co or expert content is the most influential type of content. Now, next is branded content. This is the course content that you create. So branded content can be your floor plans or your project photos. This is what your leads, of course, consider to be your product, although it’s not what they actually buy.

We may discuss more on that later available homes including Built Homes, which offers them price, qualification, and then finally your locations or their service area. And I know you may have more content on your website and social media that isn’t related to product price or place, but just know that that content will not influence the lead’s decision to start a relationship with you. And remember, starting a relationship is key here.

They don’t care about your About Us page until they understand you have a product that can fit into their budget that’s in the location that they’re desiring. So what you see on the screen right now is an example of an available home. So look at the area in red here that I’ve highlighted on the slide. So a lot of our clients, don’t build spectrum model homes. Kelly, you’re one of them.

They don’t build specs or model homes so they think, oh, I don’t have the type of content that can go into an available home section. However, this example that you’re seeing here is a sold home. So if you do not build specs, you can create to-built packages or show pre-sold homes here. This is an example of a locations page. It should list the specific communities and show a map of those communities.

And the third type of content that you’ll need to attract leads is what we call user-generated content in the form of reviews. So all positive online reviews are valuable, but Google, Facebook, and how they rank at the top. So when you get positive Google reviews, those boost your search engine rankings.

Most of your buyers are on Facebook, and hows are the only social platform direct dedicated strictly to housing. And that’s where you should be getting some leads here. Now you see, I’ve highlighted this is a review from one of Kelly’s clients and you can see, you know, to kind of solidify his reputation in the marketplace here.

Why? And I love this, why we are a four-time repeat customer. Kelly, I swear you must have probably paid them, to write that, but may, maybe not. Anyway, that user-generated content is very, very important, but not the most influential. Remember, that’s expert content followed by branding content. 

Rick: So what doesn’t work? The type of content that does not work is, this your process as an example. A lot of builders get really wrapped up in their process. It’s not that it’s simple, your process isn’t important, but it’s not something that your lead is looking for. Awards, a lot of builders like to self-gratify saying, we won this award, we won that award, and they flash right all over the website. It gets in the way.

If you wanna do a press release on that, wonderful. If you wanna do a blog post, that’s fantastic, but keep it out of the main website. A lack of floor plans is especially true for custom builders. A lot of builders might get testimonials, but then they group ’em all on one page. It’s a big no-no because your leads don’t go to that page.

You wanna sprinkle those testimonials into your most visited pages. So you just track your Google Analytics and find out where your leads are going, and that’s where you show your testimonials. And then photos of projects under construction. I, I mean any low-quality photo or qual or photos that are imagery, that is low emotion you wanna leave off of your website. I made a note there.

MLS only if you are building spec homes, it is good to show progress photos and construction photos on the MLS. All right, we’re gonna move second now to capture. so capturing leads, you will offer to answer their three questions. So again, question number one is, what will my new home remodel space look like? The product?

So the technique that we will use here is called inbound or permission-based marketing. We’ll give them a compelling offer called a lead magnet, and we’ll start a relationship with your future client. The highest amount of leads will be converted by answering their questions on the design.

That’s always first and foremost on everyone’s mind. Doesn’t matter if it’s new homes or remodeling. So photos and floor plans are of utmost importance. So on the screen, you will see an example of a design library. It’s an index page showing examples of floor plans or photos of the homes that you have built.

You need at least five, but you don’t need more than 15 examples here. So once the lead is checking out your floor plans, you then introduce your lead magnet. In this example, to access your enhanced design library with more than 2000 plants. So note how you’ll ask them a question on where they wanna build, and that will start to filter out any leads outside of your service area.

So next we’ll use the lead’s question on where they want to build to capture those leads who have a place on the top of, their mind. And again, this is just a simple lot report where again, you can ask people what location they’re considering and their price range. Just give a list of your, of your lots that you either have access to or control but not necessarily the specifics where they can go see that lot without having you show it to them. We’re rattling through pretty quickly here. Now again, if you want a copy of those slides, just type slides in the chat box. 

Rick: Next. We will be moving to capture leads using lead magnets, asking the question of how much will it cost. So this is the price. How much is a huge, huge question in every leader’s mind? And if you don’t give them some idea of what your services are, you either, A, you will collect leads that are not relevant to your offering, so the price is too high or too low. Or B, they’ll eliminate you because they don’t find the information I’m looking for on your website.

So what you see on the example here is a lead say, checking out some case study projects. And so what you will do is when they go in and click on the button, they go into your scope range and Booking wizard. That’s this one right here the, with the Arrow Whiz.

So on that scope range in Booking Wizard, they can go ahead and start the process of setting the budget. And of course, to get that budget, they have to opt-in with their contact information and book a call with you in order to get it. So here’s an example of a home builder. This is an available home section.

It shows the full breadth of, you wanna show the full breadth of offering in the homes you build. This is how they will self-qualify. So as you see here, this is a $22.1 million home. So they find a plan that they like, and then they can go in and they can start scoping out their home too. So if you’re a custom builder, you go with style. The home, as you can see here. In addition to that, you can let them price out one of your plans using the same Wizard.

So some examples here from Kelly. This is from 2022. He collected about 178 total website leads using the tools I just showed you. He converted 71 of those into re or 71 of those were remodeling leads, excuse me, and 107 for custom home leads. So, type one into the chat box if you would like to capture about 178 leads off your website next year.

It’s something that we’ve been working on for a long, long time. But as you can see, these things do work. These are real-world examples. So we’re gonna move on to number three. We’ve, so far, we’ve attracted leads using content. We’ve captured them using lead magnets, and now we will convert them into appointments by segmenting them into booking and nurturing campaigns. 

Rick: So here is an example of a lead that was attracted and captured wanting to get more floor plans. Notice the time they opted in. Okay? It was 7:48 PM. So this is an email from a booking campaign and we gave them the link to the enhanced design library, but we also use segmentation to give them a compelling reason to book an appointment.

And that’s what the second box is here. Are you looking for more new home design ideas? So book a 10-minute call with me here. Again, this is coming, from Kelly. Two minutes later we send them a text message so this doesn’t look automated because there’s a slight delay and that’s the key. You have to do a slight delay.

So it looks like Kelly just happened to see the leaders come in at eight o’clock that night or seven 50 and sent them a text back and said, Hey, here’s the link. Look forward to talking. Look what happened after that. And right after that, the lead converted into an appointment on Kelly’s calendar from here on, we’ll put him into a reminder campaign for his phone call. We’ll ask him to tell us more about his project before Kelly has the call.

Now, most new leads will convert from a text message, and they do convert within about four days of opting in. If they don’t book an appointment after two weeks of using the follow-up if you use email, voicemail drops, and text messages, you’ll move them to a long-term nurturing program that runs six plus months. So this program is also segmented. So this lead came in interested in design.

So we will start by, by nurturing them on design. Then in this example, we will move to location or place, then price. And then finally choosing a builder. And every single year you will sell projects from leads that are, are in, or have completed your nurturing program. The primary goal of the program is just to create trust and value by positioning yourself as a local expert. So let’s talk a little bit more about trust.

So creating trust with your leads is as simple as providing them with content that answers their questions in a timely manner. It’s super important to point out, so I wanna repeat this. Creating trust with your leads is as simple as providing them with content that answers their questions in a timely manner.

As soon as they find a local source with the information they’re looking for, they’ll stick with it. And that’s what you wanna be, are your local source of answering their questions and your marketplace. So let’s take a look at some conversion results from 2022. So out of 178 total leads, there were 91 leads that scheduled an appointment. About 60 of those out of 71 were for remodeling.

Very high conversion rate there, 85%, 31, of the 107 were for new homes or about 29% conversion rate. So Kelly, I just wanna get a little input from you here that averages to roughly, if you figure 50 weeks, you’re working two appointments a week. I’m curious, you know, how many of these phone appointments you would estimate would move to a site visit or, or an initial meeting if it’s a custom home? 

Kelly: Well, the numbers you’ve got right there, so the conversion rate of, of 60, of the 71 remodeling leads converted to a, an in-house appointment. And then of those 91, about 30% of those convert to the first pre-construction agreement. 

Rick: First pre-construction agreement. Okay. So quite, quite a few. So you’re capturing leads here that are definitely interested in talking. And of the ones that aren’t interested, they go into the nurturing program, long-term, established trust and value. Then we’ll come back and we’ll retarget those leads over time about once a quarter, and we’ll go back and try to reactivate them. So let me re-recap. Yeah, go ahead Kelly. 

Kelly: I can make a quick comment on just a point of clarification on the emails you were showing, the emails in the text with Buddy, to be very clear to everyone that is all 100% automated. That’s not me doing that at all. 

Rick: Yeah, exactly. You’re home making dinner or hanging out with your wife or, you know playing softball, what have you. Exactly right. We wanna make it seem like it’s coming from you, but it’s not. It’s, it’s not coming for you. It’s being done for you. Alright, so let’s recap where we’re at.

So we’ve used the three primary questions of your leads to create content. We, that have attracted them, we’ve employed lead magnets to capture them, and we’ve utilized segmented booking and nurturing campaigns to convert them into a phone appointments. So now it’s time to sell. Okay, so the goal here is, and this is something I borrowed from you, Kelly, incremental commitments for incremental work.

And Russ, you’re gonna chime in here as well. But I wanna start with just by defining value. When the price you are asking is equal to the perceived quality of the lead value is created. So let’s look at it a different way. Another way to look at it as your leads, the quality perception of what they’re getting is greater than what you are asking. Value is achieved. So how do you sell a lead on paying for estimating?

You show them they’re getting more than what they’re paying for, and that’s the key thing here. And, Kelly’s gonna give us some of his insights that he, that he uses. So to do that we’ll get back to asking for incremental commitments to answer their questions on product and price. So this is where you need to understand some of the greatest fears of, to your advantage, the greatest fears of your clients. So what are those fears?

The fears of the unknown. So product, place, and price. So making a mistake in their design and builders selection cost overages after the contract is signed and we’re gonna come back and look at that one specifically. Going through the process and being unsatisfied with the results. What you wanna think of yourself at this stage is to position yourself as a consultant first, then a builder. And the reason, of course, is that you want to sell the lead.

Look, let’s look, let’s kick the tires. Let’s date before we get married. Let the lead discover what it’s like to work with you. In other words, you will know what the score is before the game begins. Show them the pitfalls of getting multiple bits, you know, the traditional bid versus working through your process and all the benefits. It must be part of your story, your process, however, you wanna position that. 

Rick: So we’re gonna move in now into some sales tips, specific scripts. I call this Socratic questioning. This is answering, and asking questions that will lead the lead to the place you want to go. So the intro I, suggest is normally there are a couple of different ways to approach the building and remodel in your home. I’ll give you some information. You can decide which way makes the most sense.

Is that okay? Once I’ve asked that question, the lead now thinks they’re in control. Cuz I asked them for permission and they said yes. So they think they’re in control. But really I’m in control because I asked the next question and I’m gonna say at the end of our time together, assuming we’re a good fit for one another, I’m gonna ask you one simple question.

Would you consider it hiring? Ironwood Custom Builders. If the answer is yes, we’ll talk about the next steps. If not, no harm is done. I’ll even try to refer you to another company. Does that sound fair? What I’m doing here, guys, with this strategy is I’m simply removing their focus on how much and what will it look like and where can it be built into my process.

Because if they buy into my process and I tell ’em they need to start paying in order to get the information that they need, they bought in, they see value in it, and they’ll move to the next step. So you’re gonna open up with a question like this, have you built a new home or remodeled the home before? Simple yes or no question.

It’s called the close-ended question. Since we would be the first builder you’d be working with, what things would you like to know about Ironwood Custom Builders before you consider hiring us? So that’s again, somebody that has not gone through this process before. Then I can dig into their fears. Okay.

So what concerns or fears do you have about the actual construction phase of the project? I’m gonna listen to that answer. I’m gonna pick up those hot buttons. I’m gonna weave that into my builder’s story. I’m gonna go one more slide here. Then I’m gonna ask Kelly and Russ for some feedback here. So what if they say yes?

Well, then my question is, well why isn’t your previous builder building your next home for you? Or, why isn’t the remodeler doing this project for you? I might ask, on a scale of one to 10, with 10 being the highest, how would you rate your experience? Cause I’m looking for a bad experience. What criteria did you use to choose them? I want them to reflect on maybe, they made a choice based on a low price.

How would you rate the ownership experience? In other words, warranty, crossroads design, et cetera. So Kelly, let’s start with you. Any thoughts? I know you, you do things differently and there’s no right or wrong way here, but some things that you use to kind of tee up the idea of them paying for your services to estimate.

Kelly: Well, I, I, I use your, the questions you have listed here, I, I use those, they’re, they’re slightly different in the way I present them, but I’m basically trying to get, you know, the same information. I wanna find out what their hot-button issues are like you mentioned, and then I can sort of tailor my, presentation to demonstrate how our approach solves their problems and or concerns.

But really the primary thing, and I think it was a slide or two back that you had mentioned it. I, I describe to them, or actually what I say to them is that in order for me to best describe my approach or our approach, let me first describe how the traditional approach works and then contrast that with what we do.

And then I explain to them the traditional go out and get three free estimates and basically what the pitfalls are with that particular approach, which is basically inefficiency and inaccuracy. And then I then describe to them how our process works and talk about how the ultimate objective of our, our approach is detailed accuracy.

And probably most importantly, aside from those two things is establishing report trust, establishing a relationship before we begin the process before I show up and start tearing their house apart. And then I talk a little bit about the costs associated with our particular process. And leave it at that and ask them if that’s something that they would find valuable or helpful, in getting through this whole home building or remodeling approach. And as you heard me say, about 30% of the people say yes.

Rick: Russ, anything you want to add to that? 

Russ: Yeah, this is, a crucial part of the sales process. And the qualifying process tends to divide into two components. There are the disqualifying questions and then there are the discovery questions. So, in terms of the disqualifying questions, these would be closed questions. They’re very quick to get through, but this is what protects a builder’s time because there are certain no-nos, and there are yes-no answers that they’re not emotional.

They, they’re simply not gonna be a good fit. And to give you an example of that, it’s, you know, do you have land do you have a move-in date? You know, when you are looking, to move in, where’s the location? Because if it’s outside the area that you service, yeah, these are all things that you, you could disqualify type.

I know Kelly does both custom homes and remodeling, but some guys will just do a certain type of, project and if it falls outside your area of expertise, you might wanna be disqualified from those. So there are about seven questions that our members run through, which can be covered in five minutes, and that will help eliminate, a large portion, you know, of inquiries.

But then we move into the discovery, and I think this is where some people may, may struggle a bit because this is, discovery is quite a big commitment. You’re gonna, you’re gonna commit probably about 45 minutes of your time, but you’ve already disqualified the people that aren’t a good fit.

So it’s a good investment at this stage. And at the discovery stage, we’re really, we are looking for the decision-makers like you said, Rick, you know, have they built before? It’s it’s critical. You know, where’s the site, you know, what does the site look like? Is it a difficult site? And then the emotional ones. What’s the most important thing to you about this build? What we’re, what we’re really looking for when we ask this question.

People fall into three categories, and that’s quality, speed, and budget. If we say to them, what’s the most important thing, quality, speed, or budget, they want all three. So it’s up to us as salespeople too, to understand what is the number one driver. Yeah. The primary, and then the secondary because this is all good intel that we are going to use later in the sales process to present the very best case. And yeah.

What are their concerns about building a great emotional question as well? Yeah. We wanna uncover the fears because our proposal must address those fears. You know, maybe in the form of a guarantee, maybe in the form of objection handling. And, in right at the very end.

I know some guys like to ask this question right up front and use it as a disqualifier, but really the budget question can only come in at the end, in our opinion. And, and that’s because you simply don’t need enough, enough trust, to get an honest budget, a legitimate budget. And, we might even frame that question up before we present it as well, you know, from what you’ve told me. Yeah, I think we are looking at x. Yeah.

We’re gonna give a range, you know, did you, did you see yourself spending more or, or less than that? Or have we, you know, are we in the ballpark? Yeah. Cause again, we’re, if they’re a lot less then. Yeah. We, there’s education again. Yeah. We wouldn’t be disqualifying someone just because they got a 400,000 budget and they, they wanna build a million-dollar home. Yeah.

We’re gonna dig deeper and, and, and ask more questions and find out, well, how did you arrive at that budget? So it’s a very, very important part of the process to get right. But one of the most important things I’d say is to, is to listen and go deep. This isn’t an insurance form. It’s not a tick and flicks every answer that, that prospect comes back with. It’s interesting. Tell me more. Go deeper. This, this time that you invest is absolutely golden. And it can be the difference between winning and losing a job, you know, months later in the process. 

Rick: Absolutely. Good insight. 

Kelly: If I could, if I could just add to that a little bit as far as, our approach is concerned to some of the things that Russ said. So our pre-qualifying is really done on the phone. Tell me a little bit about your project so I can determine whether or not it’s something that we want to do. Where are you located? Is it in an area we wanna work in?

Is there a particular time that you would like to have your project completed? And what we have found is that that gets you a totally different answer from when would you like to start. Then I have them gimme some more information on what they would like to do. And then something that’s a little bit contrary to what Russ talked about is that in that first conversation, we do actually ask them if you have a particular amount in mind that you would like to invest in your project.

Now I understand that regardless of when that discussion is had, we’re probably not getting the real number. Some people just throw it out just that quickly. And, the value in that is that if, if they’ve described to me what I anticipate is going to be a $150,000 kitchen remodel, and they tell me that their budget’s 50,000.

Okay, well that can lead to the next set of questions. Like the rest mentioned, how did you arrive at that number? And, try to get to the bottom of whether can we get the budget in reality to mesh. If not, then that’s sort of a disqualifier and we can end the conversation. For other people that don’t like to offer up a number, I will usually say something like, you know, using this $150,000 kitchen remodel.

I’ll say, okay, just in broad numbers, is this a hundred thousand projects, a 200,000 project, a 500,000 project? What I have found is that typically once you cross the number that they’re planning, they’ll go, oh, no, no, no. This is definitely not a 200,000 project. Okay.

Were we one-to-one 50? Yeah, probably one-to-one 50. So it’s all about having the conversation and drawing as much information outta them as you can before you decide whether or not you want to invest the time to go meet with them. Once I have made the decision that I want to meet with them, then we will set up the appointment, and then in that first appointment, that’s when we start the discovery stage if you will. 

Rick: Mm-hmm. ? Yep. Absolutely. Thanks for clarifying that, Kelly. And, and I guess the last caveat to that is, especially for you, we’re disqualifying people before you ever get to the phone with ’em too because you’re asking them what’s your budget? And if they say less than a hundred grand, they’re out of the system. 

Kelly: Yes. 

Rick: The system kicks ’em out. Or if they don’t pick one of the zip codes that you have in your service area, they’re out. So you can go as far as that. If you get a really, really high volume of leads or you have a big backlog, you can really start to filter these things down before you ever get, to this process.

But I think the key thing, the key thing here, is it’s asking really good questions. And what I have found is that every lead has three hot buttons. There are three things that they’re gonna tell you. And so what I made here is that you know that opening question. Have you built a remodeled home before? Are you’re gonna listen and pick up those hot buttons?

You wanna find three? And once you find those three, as long as it fits into your price if it’s the right personality, it’s the right project and it’s the right place, then you wanna weave those into your builder’s story and positioning statement in focusing on those hot buttons.

Now, one of the things that can throw you for a loop if you ask this question is that somebody says, yeah, we have built before, and it was a great experience. So we love our builder. You’re sort of like, why am I here? You know, if that’s the case. So when somebody gives you that answer, you have to confirm what they liked about that last builder, and then tell them what parts of your process will ensure they get another good experience. So a lot of times what happens is the builders are not in the service area, they’re out of business, or they don’t do that type of project. 

Russ: I think while we’re just on this section as well, it’s probably important to just highlight as well the importance of speed when you get these new inquiries because yeah, a lot of the times we’ve, we’ve seen companies that will deliberately leave it a day or two because they don’t wanna look desperate, you know, they don’t wanna look too keen. But it’s absolutely the opposite. 

Rick: Absolutely. 

Russ: Sales can be measured in seconds, and another thing that can happen as well as there can be a perception that these inquiries are no good. Yeah, because by the time they get speaking to them, yeah, they’re just time wasters as well, they’re not time wasters.

They’ve already had a conversation with another builder and they were really impressed and happy. Maybe they’ve even spoken to another couple of builders, which isn’t ideal. But the point is they don’t really have the bandwidth to have another full-on conversation with another builder when they feel they’re, you know, they’re, they’re on the right track.

So it can, it can be very you can get, a misunderstanding of the strength of your funnel. So when these inquiries come in, yeah, don’t waste a second, you know, speed and that, and that’s why a system like Kelly has is just so, so important because it’s, it’s automated and it’s engaging and it’s a game changer. 

Rick: You know, and we’ll just do a little trick to that too. The secret sauce is everyone expects an email ought to be automated because that’s just how things work. But you wait one minute. and then send ’em a text that looks organic. They didn’t expect the text. And we will, even if we don’t get a response from the text, then we usually wait a couple of hours during the business time and we’ll drop a voicemail, at that point as well. So they, you, you’re right, you have to blow them away.

They ex, if you’re not responding within five minutes, you’re gonna lose the deal. I mean, that’s really what it comes down to. Yeah. They might respond to you a day later, but as you said, you’re not the only builder they’re talking to. Say they’ve already had conversations. If they are already hearing back from other builders and you’re the last one in, you’re gonna be the first one out. I mean, it’s as, it’s as simple as, as that.

Wanna move into collecting estimating fees here. And Kelly, this is, this is your formula, so we wanna get into starting to collect for your estimated fees. So you ask these good questions, you’ve picked out the hot buttons, you’ve understood what fears they have, good experiences, bad experiences, maybe no experience.

And now what we’re moving next is to, alright this is how it works. We are going to start collecting estimating fees in order to get you the information you’re looking for. So, Kelly, this is essentially your process, a quarter percent of the budget, the median number that you give them at the initial site visit. So why don’t you walk us through this, what you offer them, and how you ask for this money? 

Kelly: So after, after I’ve explained to them the benefit of our approach, and, of course, I’m not saying that to them, but once I’ve explained that and educated them on how our approach will solve any problems or concerns that they have. I, then show them a chart. And we call the project development chart and show the various stages through the various parts of the preconstruction process.

And it starts with this scope and range agreement, which we basically bill or sell as a feasibility study. And we explain to them what that is and what they get for that quarter of a percent, which is basically a preliminary scope of work based on what they’ve described to me.

And then I tell them that I’m, I’m gonna take what they’ve described to me, put it into a scope of work, and then I’m gonna start to fill in the blanks. In other words, what other kinds of things or types of things have to happen in order to accomplish everything that they have described?

Then what I’m gonna do is take that scope of work and run just some very basic preliminary in-house calculations to determine the feasibility of doing what’s in the scope of work for the preliminary budget range that we talk about in that first meeting. I tell them that I am not getting bids yet. I’m not creating a line-item budget.

These are just very basic preliminary calculations to determine the feasibility, again, the feasibility of doing what’s in the scope for the range we originally talked about. Then I tell them the next thing I wanna do is, is trying to hone in on and narrow that range a little bit. So what I will do is take them, and the results of the feasibility study will be the scope of work. The value in that is that it allows them to see what I’m thinking, aside from everything that they’ve described to me.

The second thing is that I can show them a more accurate range of what their project is likely going to cost. If they’re comfortable with the scope of work and they’re comfortable with that narrowed range. So on your slide, you’re showing that, and this is a scenario that definitely happens frequently.

If someone will describe to me a kitchen remodel too and I will just say, okay, based on what you’ve described, I anticipate the best and worst case scenario, your kitchen’s probably going to land somewhere between one and one 50. So after the feasibility study is done, I might come back and say, okay, after I’ve done all this work, your project is really more likely gonna cost somewhere between $119,250 and $139,287.

And they go, yep, we’re good with that. The scope of work looks good. All of that, you know, pretty accurately describes what we have in mind. So then we move into what we call the proposal preparation phase.

Rick: And I’m gonna, I’ll pause you right there cuz we’re gonna get to that in the next slide cause I’ve got, 

Kelly: Okay. 

Rick: I’ve got notes on that. Russ, anything you wanna add to this? I know there are different ways for doing this, but any, any tweaks. 

Russ: Yeah, look there are a number of ways of approaching this. I think that’s something we’ve, we’ve seen quite clearly over the years. We have, a preferred structure that we teach, our members, but I think as a builder, you end up adapting it to your own strengths, your own market, and your own product.

But the strategy remains the same. You have to be charging for this part of the process. And I, and I think if you, if you are struggling with the thought of charging to estimate, It’s and, and your prospects aren’t seeing value in paying for an estimate when they can go to another builder and, and get it for free.

Well, there’s, there are two things here. First of all, there’s education, but the other thing is the perceived value. And I think it’s what you’ve touched on, Rick, you don’t actually charge for the estimate, you charge for the pre-construction services, of which the estimate is a component.

If you just isolate and say, I’m gonna charge you to price your job, that’s when you’ll start to come up against objections from a lot of people. So it’s really about building out the value of this pre-construction work that you’re doing, which cannot be done for free. It’s just not viable.

Rick: One of the things I wanted to make, make a note here, going back to what you, you talked about is that position yourself as a consultant first than a builder. So in other words, what is the value of getting information in order to make a well-informed choice?

It’s quite high because if they’re considering a 500,000 million, 1.52 million, whatever it projects spending a little bit of money upfront to get the information they need to know and in order to make that big decision down the road, it’s a lot cheaper to do it upfront than it is to do it. Once they’re already into the project and they discover they made a big mistake, so they’re used to paying their attorney, their accountant, their dentist, their doctor, and their financial planner.

They used to be paying for information. So that’s how you position yourself and again, get multiple bids of traditional bids versus working through your process and benefit. If you go into a meeting and you immediately start talking about design and budget and finding the location for them, all you have done is reinforce their questions and yours, you will continue to be commoditized.

What can I get and how, and how, how much house and how little does it cost? That’s, that’s their two questions. I want this much and I want this much. I have a beer budget and a champagne taste. If you ask them, would they consider hiring you, or partnering with you? And they say yes, now you’ve flipped to your process.

And so now you’re able to walk through this and tell them, this is your process and this is the benefits to it. So, Kelly, I want to jump back now to your proposal preparation agreement. So this is where you’re going. So you’ve pre, you’ve delivered the scope and range, the feasibility study you’re reviewing, the numbers are saying, yep, that looks good, and then this is your next step. So go ahead and take it from here.

Kelly: Yes. So once, once we meet, we review the scope of work, and we review the revised budget parameters. They agree that that’s all acceptable to them, and they’re happy with it or they’re comfortable with it. So then, the results of the feasibility study are actually in our next agreement, which we call the proposal preparation agreement.

I have already explained to them in the initial meeting what the proposal preparation agreement is about. So they know that it’s coming. Once they agree to sign it, then the cost to do that is 1% of the budget range. So, you know, if it’s a half-a-million-dollar project, it’s $5,000.

If it’s a million-dollar project, it’s $10,000. And so on and so forth. So during that process for us, the next thing we do is tailor a vendor’s list that fits their particular project. We send them to all of our vendors to pick everything out. We give them a list of instructions so that they know what to do as they go to each vendor.

We also make recommendations for interior designers if they would like help picking things out. Probably about half of our clients end up using the services of interior designers. Simultaneously we are working on the design and that is either something that we are doing in-house, which we charge separately for, or they’re working with their architect.

Part of the proposal preparation agreement is that if they do have an architect, we will consult with them on the design to troubleshoot the design and make sure that everything is being drawn in and designed as efficiently and cost-effectively as possible. Once the design is done and once they’ve picked everything out, if it is a remodeling project, we will have a site visit with all the trades.

If it’s a remodeling project or an extensive remodeling project, we could have 20 to 30 people show up to that initial meeting. The purpose of that site visit is to allow all the trades to troubleshoot each of their particular trades, to make sure the bids they’re giving us are virtually dead on. And then once we have the site visit, then basically I’m telling them I have everything I need to give you a proposal that is virtually 100% accurate. 

Now, since Covid hit and we had all the shortages and the price increases we have added some cost-plus elements to our contract. But basically, that’s just on a handful of commodity items, lumber, steel, asphalt, and things of that nature. So largely the overall intent of our contract is that it is still a fixed price contract, and this process allows me to deliver to you a final proposal that is virtually 100% accurate.

That is what people buy into. Now, in your previous slide, I think you had a note on there that even though we convert about 30% of our initial appointments to the scope and range agreement, once I get that scope and range agreement signed, almost 100% of those convert to a proposal preparation agreement and almost 100% of those convert to a final construction contract.

So the trick is, is that if you can just get them to sign the agreement and start writing your checks, I think it goes without saying that they are very likely not talking to anyone else. So the other advantage to this process is that you are eliminating the competition.

Rick: Absolutely. 

Russ: Just to highlight this as well, this is the power of a documented sales process, of which only around 50% of building companies actually have. And it’s been proven, in the data that the guys with a documented sales process are four times more likely to achieve the industry benchmarks for their margins.

So this is such, an important part, but probably the other thing I’ll just drop, drop in on here is where you’re saying, Kelly, that almost a hundred percent are going to contract when the proposal comes. Within the scope and range budget, it’s so, so important. At this point, the communication, because we know what happens.

Once, once the clients had that initial conversation and thrown out their budget, all they try and do is add stuff on. And a lot of the time it could be the designer, it, you know, it could even be the salesperson or the builder themselves. They’re thinking, will they understand that this is gonna cost more, but they’re not articulating it or, or backing that up with documented communication.

And the consumer, if it’s not challenged in their mind, the budget stays the same. And you get to this situation where you are presenting the final price and it’s a hundred grand over cause you’ve had scope creep. So doesn’t matter how small those things are that they add on, it could be a hundred dollars.

You verbalize it and you back it up in writing and you change the budget. That budget is now $150,000, $100, and you work from there and you forget about the original budget. And when you do that, you know, that’s when you come in you know you know, the final price comes within their expectations.

And you know, as, as Kelly is showing with his numbers that lead to almost a hundred percent conversion. Absolutely not, and Kelly, I noted you said we act as a consultant to the architects to keep them on track, because they get off track really fast and they can, they can implode a deal.

So how soon do you wanna be living in and enjoying your new home and remodeled space? I wanna move to the next idea here. The idea is to streamline estimating. So we wanna reduce estimating time to get commitments faster. Kelly, these are your notes here as well. Maybe give us a little bit of background here on how you do this.

So I have, well, so, so the budget parameters that I come up with in the initial consultation can come from one of a couple of different things. I think all of us that have been doing this for a while after a short conversation with the prospect has a pretty good sense of what the cost is likely going to be.

So in that first meeting, some of it comes from just simply gut instinct. I do have a very short spreadsheet that allows me to enter some variables there in the meeting for the various types of projects that we do that also give me some numbers. So, so the numbers are coming from one of those two different things, and that’s done within a matter of minutes.

Once they sign the scope and range agreement, the feasibility study I spend about I think it’s about two hours per, I think we’ve got it narrowed down to about two hours per $100,000 of time that goes into the scope and range a. For the scope and range agreement, I actually have just a, more complex spreadsheet and there are other ways to do it.

There are, there’s estimating software, but I just have all of the per-unit costs in our spreadsheet so that I can do that preliminary in-house estimate that I’m telling the client we are doing. I’m not wasting time getting busy yet. And so they understand that there is going to be a margin of error at about 10% on what I come in with as compared to the budget parameters that I give them in the initial meeting.

Once they sign, well, once we convert to the proposal preparation agreement, I spend about 10 hours per $100,000. Going through all of that particular phase, which is updating the scope of work, tailoring the vendor’s list receiving all of the bids, actually formally soliciting all the bids, receiving all the bids, reviewing all the bids, updating the scope of work accordingly, updating the scope of work based on the final set of plans, the site visit, all of that stuff.

That’s where we spend that approximate 10 hours per $100,000. So, for two hours, two hours per 100,000, right? That’s, that’s in the feasibility study. Oh, feasibility. Okay. Okay. Yes, yes. So it comes out to about a hundred dollars an hour. So, for an owner, general manager, or salesperson, a hundred dollars an hour obviously isn’t great, but it’s a hell of a lot better than free.

No, no. Better said there. Ross, anything you want to add? Yeah. Yeah, this is I mean, it’s nice to make a bit of money at this stage, but really it’s about changing the relationship, isn’t it? Because when someone has given you money, they are no longer a prospect or an opportunity. They are a customer.

And when you can have these different stages where they are handing over money, it becomes a habit. And what you find is when you actually get to the deposit, you know, a lot of those barriers are broken down. It’s the most natural thing in the world to pay that deposit and move to the next stage because they’ve already paid you for a couple of previous stages.

Absolutely. Yeah. Very, very good point. A couple of things to wrap up here. If you guys do have questions, I’m sorry, I sent the chat. Use a chat before. Use the q and a. If you have questions right now, please load ’em into the question, the question box. We have a few that we will go through, but what else do you get from this process?

There are really two primary reasons to use this in addition to getting paid for your time, of course, what Russ already said, is about establishing that relationship and never worrying about your estimate being too high. Kel, you mentioned this. It’s like you go in, it’s like, gee, do I wanna give ’em this nu number?

Is it too high? They’re working through the process with you, so you really don’t have to worry about giving them, a high estimate, nor do you have to buy a job because you have a hole in your schedule. If you’ve got a backlog, if you’re using construction, slot selling, you have a backlog in design, a backlog of leads.

You’ve mentioned it before. I think it’s worth repeating, Russ. Human psychology is people want what they can’t have. So when they find out you have a backlog, it’s to your benefit. So don’t get scared away by that. And, and you also mentioned this once before, Russ, it’s worth repeating. Don’t start adding a slot-slash construction schedule that you can’t handle.

You have discipline and stick with what you’re capable of starting and closing on, on a monthly basis. So a couple of just final thoughts here with Kelly. Kelly’s done a lot, with Utah and the Utah Department of Professional Licensing. He serves on the architectural codes Council for the State of Utah, and he’s annually reviewed building codes and makes recommendations to the legislator on amendments, editions, and deletions.

And I, and, and Kelly, aren’t you the upcoming, is it a president for the Utah Association? Yeah, I was, I was president of Salt Lake, H b A in 2011, and I was just elected to the Utah State, H b a board of directors and also the president in 2026. So. Thank you for all your input here on this presentation.

This is, again, going back to one of your customer reviews, and I’ve highlighted some spots here. Just wanna show you someone who’s gone through this process four times. Check out what this person is saying. Okay. We’ve hired Ironwood, for four different projects ranging from that whole Homer model, the several moderate East size projects where repeat customers, because we now listen to this, we know the result will be excellent and the process will be consistent quite simply, we know what we are getting each time.

Now, look at what I’ve highlighted in yellow here. Considerable time is spent upfront to develop a detailed scope and plan before any cost proposal is provided or any work commences as a result. Surprises have been minimal. Remember the. The biggest fears, those costs, overruns, those surprises costs have been fixed aside when we request a change.

The bottom line is Ironwood is much easier to work with than other contractors and is run like a business should be run. We have always been thrilled with the result. That is someone who not only paid a hefty markup on their project, they paid for their estimate and they did it. They’ve done it four different times.

Russ, you have something also that I wanna make sure people know about. You’ve got your source fee report coming out. Just give us a little bit of background on this. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it’s fantastic having Kelly on here sharing his experience and his data and his facts and proof. But there, there’s always this little voice that can kick inside our mind, which is there to protect us and stop us from moving forward.

And it’s the year, but, and it’s, yeah, but I’m in a rural Oh yeah. But I’m in a metro area. I’m in a different state. I’m in a different country. It kind of kicks in, but then, the fact is these strategies, we’ve gone through all work in different locations with different types of residential construction businesses in different countries.

And the thing that proves that, that they work is this, which is a comprehensive survey of over 1000 owners and directors of residential building companies in four countries. The data has all been collated and explained in this comprehensive report, which proves everything that Rick has been going through and that margins are linked to marketing.

That a sales process will increase, your margins. And this is the process to use. And you can access this report free of charge. We’ve been, this is the third year of collating the data and publishing it. This will be published. In March. I was about to say this month because it’s the 1st of March here in Australia, but you guys are, we’re still hanging left by a threat bringing up the rear, aren’t you?

In February? Yeah. Bringing up rear still got a few hours to make your numbers for the month, but, we’ll be publishing this report. You can access the PDF completely free of charge and there’s, we will put a link, we will put a link in there for that too, so they can get, get access to it.

Cool. Yeah, there’s an option to get the printed report as well free of charge. We just asked you to cover postage and packaging, but yeah, this started off as a, as a report, we were charging $500 for, it was so beneficial in the industry that yeah, we’ve decided the distribution of the information is, is far more important, so making that available for everyone.

Thank you, Russ. Questions. Again, if you have a question you haven’t put in yet, type it into the q and a box. We’ve, there are a few in here that we’ve already answered but I wanna read this question. This is from Taylor who attended the program. When we presented this program at the International Builder Show in Las Vegas.

He says Hey Rick. I wanted to reach out and say thank you for hosting the class and charging for estimates. We have generated over $5,000 within the first two weeks of implementation. I wanted to ask you a related question. Right now we are offering free consultations, and then while they are there, we let them know we charge a retainer.

Before we begin estimating, my question is, when do we let them know about the retainer fee on the first phone? We’re qualifying or do we do it right when we are in person and tell them in person? So, Kelly, I guess I’ll go to you first. What do you, how would you answer that? When do you tell them it’s, it’s one of the last things that we discussed?

They, need to understand what the value of our approach is first, and then we discuss what the associated costs are. And so does that mean you tell them when you’re onsite during the site visit or the first? Okay, so not on the phone. Russ, any thoughts from you? Well, I think the most important thing is when this conversation starts and this whole qualifying process, it’s all about them.

It’s understanding their wants and needs. So we don’t wanna be jumping in and talking about ourselves early on, which yeah, I think we all know a salesperson that that’s done that to us. So I think that’s the most important thing. After that, I do like to frame up and manage expectations, but yeah, I, I, I think it comes down to, the individual.

I like what Kelly said. I think that’s I think that’s perfect. Framing it up on-site at that stage of, the relationship. It’s you can probably read it in the person you’re speaking to, whether they will need to know this because it could even be used as a, a bit of a disqualifier, you know, if you can kind of sense this is the, maybe the wrong type of fit.

But yeah, I think the most important thing is the, is sequence rather than speed, I guess because that’s what we’re really talking about here. Kelly, one other note, and I wanted to bring this up. I think if you remember the story of the first time you asked for money from a lead to get an estimate done, it didn’t go so well.

But if you remember that story, you mind sharing it and then what you did do the second time? I do, well, I, I don’t wanna be too long, but basically I, I had gone to a seminar that was titled Getting Rid of the Tire Kickers and Start Charging For Your Time. So I spent about three months trying to figure out how in the world I charge someone for an estimate.

Everyone’s doing it for free. How do I figure this out? So after about three months, my wife said, why don’t you call that guy and ask him what his thoughts are? So I called him and he didn’t tell me how to do it. He kind of presented me with some ideas on how I needed to figure it out myself. So, I came up with how do I convince someone that there’s value in paying me to provide an estimate to them.

I came up with what I thought was, a value proposition. I came up with what I thought was a fair cost. Then I came up with a script and I dialogued with my wife for weeks and weeks and weeks. I would tell her to go easy on me, let me just get through it, and make it easy. And then the next time I would tell her to be difficult on me, try to pull me off my script.

So I probably practiced with her for easily a month. I went to the first meeting after I had figured out what I thought was going to be a good approach. I presented myself, my ideas, the value of our approach, et cetera, et cetera, to this guy. And as I was doing it, I was making mental notes of what I thought were problems.

The guy ended up saying no, and his response was, well, I’ve already met with, I don’t remember. It was two, three, or four different companies and they’re all willing to give me an estimate for free. So I walked out, and I went to my car. I immediately made notes on what I thought were the problem areas. I spent the next week or two revising my script and practicing with my wife again, and the very next meeting I went to, I walked out with a $500 check.

And as I was walking out, I told myself that I will never give my time away for free. That’s why it is fantastic. That’s what it takes. You leap and the net will appear, right? And if you crash and burn, you crash and burn. You look, you learn from it. You pick yourself up and you, you, you, you tweak things. And you know, one of the things I think it’s important to understand is your, your, your business, of course in your sales processes, it’s, it’s always flu.

You should always be refining it. And you always should be measuring your effectiveness. You know you had it down to, it takes us two hours per a hundred thousand dollars. I mean, in, in, and to do your estimates, like, yeah, that’s all based on measurement. You know, where you should be. The same thing to your conversion rates, your percentages, and who you’re talking to, we’re your best lead sources are coming from K p I, key performance indicators.

You have to measure in, in order to, in order to grow. So, Russ, any final thoughts from you? Yeah, do the estimates for free, but charge for your quotes and then educate the prospect on the difference. , Uhhuh, Awesome. Well, thank you so much everyone for joining us. Russ and Kelly, thanks again for, your wisdom.

We will get slides to everyone that asks for them, and there will be a recording along with the link to pre-order a copy of the source report, from Russ. So until next time, thank you again for joining Bidding Custom Homes or Modeling Jobs, turning Estimate into a revenue stream. We’ll see you all later.

Bye-bye. Thank you both. See you guys.